Tuesday 14 July 2015

Innocent until proven guilty....apparently not so (updated)


This is a scene from A Man for All Season which highlighted the importance of not passing judgement on a man who was yet to be found guilty by the laws.


It just occurred to me that in this country you can be condemned as guilty even  if it's yet to be proven that you are guilty.

For example, the guy accused of stealing a handphone at the Low Yat Plaza.

He has yet to be taken to court, let alone convicted of the alleged crime, yet yesterday it was announced to the world by the authorities that he is guilty of stealing the handphone.

Not only that, the guy was also indirectly announced by the authorities as being a liar and an instigator of racial hatred too.

And I thought someone is innocent until proven guilty. What happened to that maxim?

It doesn't matter that the guy may later on indeed be proven guilty. The fact that the authorities had announced his guilt before he was judged is wrong.

It's the same with instances such as PM's wife DS Rosmah Mansor being deemed guilty of this and that before she is charged in court and convicted of such offenses.

The same with PM DS Najib Razak being condemned as guilty of stealing billions of ringgit via 1MDB.

Many of us seemed okay to condemn him even before the investigation of the allegation was concluded.

Similarly, there are those among us who seemed okay to condemn without proper evidence that former PM Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad is conspiring with foreign agents and even the "evil Jews" to bring down the current administration.

And we all seem okay with all these.

Really sad la the state of affairs in this country at the moment.


  1. Annie,

    In making sure no more untoward incident happen, they blame the Malays thugs... Again, its the Malays that need to kow tim. so sad... if the Police said it is indeed the guys had been cheated on their brand new phone, what do you think will be ? Malays had to kowtim every single time to those people.. this incidents shows Malays no longer be able to tahan sabar.. so sad laa.

  2. Annie,

    A few years back. I and my neighbor caught a thief on the second day of hari raya.

    We caught him red handed with the loot.

    Of course he must stand trial by the maxim of "Innocent until proven guilty" but we gave him blue eyes nonetheless.

    I am a malay and I witness in the video that 7 malays beat up one chinaman.

    Of course, the other chinese are not going to stand there just watch.

    What is the chinaman guilty off? being born chinese? Selling imitation phone? There is no proof?

    Yet, hundred of people then gathered and started to beating up chinese and journalist. What are they guilty off?

    It is good that the IGP quickly explained to people that this is a straightforward case of theft and the theif had been caught red handed.

    This have diffused the situation and bring order to the place.

    There are CCTV footages that shows that indeed this is a theft issue, not about fraud.

    Those 7 people that went to Law Yat that created this mess should be put in jail and the jailer should throw away the keys.'
    We should not tolerate this matter.

    1. So, is it okay for you if we condemn someone as being a thief or murderer even before that someone be given a chance to defend himself in court?

    2. so if it is fraud, how would the cctv prove it ??

      i dont know the whole story. but from wht i understand he did took a phone, technically a thievery, but the reason behind ?

      thts a classic case of jolok sarang tebuan and get stung and later whine like a pig as if u didnt do nothing wrong.

      well aint tht typical..

      us to blame. aint tht typical too..

      i keep saying this, eventually if no respect and prejudice prevail, things are bound to get out of hands, sooner or later.

    3. Annie,

      I agree with we should not pass judgement before trial.

      There was a case in the news where an elderly lady was beat up by snatch thief. That elderly was hurt and need to be hospitalized.

      The snatch thief was caught by the public just like the one in Law Yatt.

      Of course the snatch thief is innocent until proven guilty and he should be treated with utmost respect like a regular folks.

      We should find out why he beat up the old lady. Maybe because the old lady put up a resistance.

      In the case of the chinese that were beat up. Why were they beaten up? There are chinese, so is there are law that said that chinese are gulity before proven innocent in the constitution?

      Why are people gathered at Law Yat demand justice while there are a system of justice in the country.

      Should the mob put up tent at Law Yat while waiting for the seven idiots to be proven innocent in court?

      In the meantime, beat up chinese, breaking up shops,journalist and breaking car.

      Are we not civilize people?

      If a thief is caught red handed, with CCTV footage and witnesses then a thief he is.

      If there was fraudulent act by the salesman. Then shows us proof please with receipt otherwise we should follow another maxim which says "All thief are liars"

    4. Anon 13.56
      Don't contradict yourself. One moment you agreed that we should not pass judgement on those yet to be proven guilty, the next you argued otherwise. If you don't want the alleged thief to be judged in court, why don't you just suggest that we get rid of the court and let the police decide who is guilty and who are not as in this Low Yat case.

    5. While we into this case I'd just like to note that it is false to justify one's actions because "the ends justify the means". Just because one has an objective to fulfill based on one's personal evaluations, that doesn't make it right choose any course of action to achieve that objective - why? Because your personal evaluation could be falling short of the various moral or legal criteria related to that objective in question.

  3. Hellooo Which Planet U living In?!!

    Investigations Done by Wall Street Journal..by Sarawak Report...By Bank Negara....

    Local Investigators Led by the Accused may take Ages to come up with anything ...Public Fear Whitewash...Comprende?


  4. Annie, eaa aa !,

    Besat punya olang atak mulut bolih cekap maa aa ,kechik punya olang mana atak mulut mau cekap lea aa .

    Wa pon manyak kesian itu Bulayu ,sutak kena tipu ,hati panas, kasi galoh ,sikalang kena tudoh ,culi itu balang , manyak kesian lor rr .

  5. To me..it is simple..

    Everyone knows itu tempat manyak suka tipu customer. So why do you go there in the first place?

    Just boycott laaaa..

    1. wow, your statement can be literally having same meaning as statements by pak menteri,
      kalau tak mau bayar tol, guna jalan lama
      kalau tak mau minyak naik, jgn guna kereta, keluar malaysia
      kalau tak tak suka ayam naik, jangan beli ayam,
      kalau tak suka kena tipu, jangan beli di low yat..

    2. Anon 6:38,

      re, Everyone knows itu tempat manyak suka tipu .

      Semua olang tahu , lamai olang tahu , itu KPDNKK tatak tahu ka ? , manyak helan lor rr .

      Mungkin juat tipu tipu punya balang ,tatak salah maa aa , itu beli punya olang manyak salah .
      Yaa lorr ! , Waa , pon ingat itu macam maa aa ,itu beli punya olang manyak salah lea aa , apa pasat pegi beli tipu punya balang lor rr ?.

      Tipu punya olang manyak peadei ,atak kuasa , kena tipu punya, mana atak kuasa ,sikalang nampak lagi bodoh maa aa.

    3. Itu tempat mulah lol.

  6. As Salam Annie,

    Should you really wish to see it, the so-called thugs & DSN matter is distinctively 2 separate issues where such maxim clearly doesn't apply. The former, on communal lines. The latter, via POLITICAL lenses. (Rather very unfortunate isn't it (??) that PERCEPTION is everything in political fora. Certainly you, least of all, are well aware of this.

    I can agree to a maxim that 'sangka BAIK, sebagaimana kita mesti selalu sangka BAIK pada Allah swt etc'. Cuma, when the people are barraged and fed by tonnes of irrefutable inputs / information; worst still of 'expose' like, it is seriously foolish to/for anyone to think that our society / citizens has not become wee bit more intelligent than say pre-Independence days. It is infact, an insult as we 'don't use Abacus' anymore.

    So, my-oh-my..I for one, do not respond kindly to being insulted. :-)



  7. The racial-biased press is stoking it, Sdr ANON 5:44

    Star Press was quick to report of the gathering of a Malay NGO(?) immediately after the incident. How do they know?

    This is almost like running the perfect script to sensationalise errant Malays not substantiated by facts. How about feeding us facts about the already convicted guy that threw pork into the Penang masjid?

    Haji M Zin
    Alor Gajah DPH

  8. I totally agree with you Annie.

    I was shocked to listen to the police (IGP some more) declaring to the world that the fella was guilty of stealing a handphone. This in-promptu sentencing is worst than a kangaroo court.

  9. just wondering, BB plaza, Sg Wang, LowYat have a a nearby police beat.. a big one.. but ironically, that place is infested with thugs, gangsters and prostitutes.. it is defintey not a family orientated place espcially at weekends.. some may say it is hearsay., but walk along that area.. so many rumah urut, dodgy motels.. and what do the authoritoes say? tourist area? and what kind of tourist are we welcoming to Malaysia? paedo?homo? gangsters?

  10. Serbuan sudah di buat. Beribu barangan klon dan palsu. Masih ok ?

    Betul kes curi atau masih meremehkan ? Betul kata u Annie. Belum terbukti bersalah, sudah di.nobat budak Melayu itu buat salah ! Peniaga2 cina sudah menipu begitu ghairah, tidak salah ? Orang menipu, dia akan cakap ' konon nya paling sah dan tulen ! '

    Mana lebih berat nilaian nya ?

  11. It's the Malay fault.. again..

  12. Thinking Ethics! the law between heaven and hell


  13. annie wht to investigate?

    najib never deny money transfered to his account, rosmah never did too. reza never explain where he got the billions.

    there no challenge to the alleged case, so wht to proof ?

    1mbd in bad shape, well some times things as obvious as asking for loan extension, u dont need investigation no more. again imbd never properly refute any allegations made to them. skirting around the issue, diff answer to diff question as if we are stupid.

    now wait for the task force? they are hunting the messanger now, its loud and clear they wont do anything to najib. investigation revolving najib is already shut without any conclusion as to money indeed was transfered or not.

    so yeah when justice no longer prevail, when selective justice is practiced u dont wait for so called investigation anymore.

    cant u imagine the situation we live in currently. if any of those high up there raped ur daughter u might just keep quiet because the police gonna come at u instead.

    looking at the task force, thts malaysia now.


    1. Ai yaah what LYP got to do with 1MDB(?) Sdr ANON 09:18

      .. or YB Tony huhu joining DS Najib, being presumed guilty
      in the trial by media for conspiring with Thai detainee Justo
      based on unconfirmed report by Singapore Police(?)

      Lets all cool it maybe go Salam at PMs Open House, boleh?
      Selamat Hari Raya and happy long holiday weekend !

      Haji M Zin
      Alor Gajah DPH

    2. haha dont wanna. i think the pm prioritized himself more than he does for the country. he dont deserve my respect.

      i mentioned najib because annie too, mentioned najib and said we are quick with our accusations.

      i dont know about you, i see selective justice here, special laws for special people, looks like najib is off the hook. suddenly they are gunning for the leakers. just like tht. i dont feel like cool it off. u might feel like tht until one day it is u at the receiving end. i dont know if u can cool it off then :)

      just saying and selamat hari raya !

  14. Annie..

    Kes Low Yatt ni boleh bagi PM kita rest sebab sudah lari dari kes 1mdb dan kes korup. Lagi semalam polis cakap sedang cari papagomo. Ini suma nak alih perhatian rakyat.

    Rasanya ada pemimpin panas punggung yg sanggup main isu perkauman asal rakyat lupa kes lebih besar.

    1. I smell a fish n this rather well-timed "racial incident". Where is the rotten smell coming from ya?

  15. ..bear with the true witnesses... with iron rod, metal, long wood... there was a bomb blasted nearby not so long ago...

    And to the Polis / Bandaraya, still maintain the place "as gangsters prime area of status quo?"

    Remember prebet Adam ? ....

  16. Annie, some will say they have to produce 4 saksi maa.

  17. Annie..you are so pathetic..CCTV is very good proof and his own admission to the theft has prove beyond a reasonable doubt of his guilt. The reason the IGP stressed on his guilt is because there are people out there trying to use these situation to cause troubles. And the way you and other bloggers still trying to spin with all type of excuses to justify the thief's actions is really saddening. His actions and those who turn up in hundreds to support him could have cause racial tensions and riots in the capital city. Is that the way you all want it?

    1. Just answer my question. Yes or No. Are you okay with condemning someone of being guilty without going through the due process of the law? By the way, the alleged thief had claimed trial in court today. His admission of guilt as you put it was announced by the IGP yesterday, but not by himself.

    2. YES..because the situation warrants it..The IGP must make a firm statement on this issue so that people like you dont go around spinning it out of context and playing on the psyche of the malays blaming the crime on the chinese. And this incident really shows that there are many people like you around which is saddening.

    3. It's even more saddening that there are people like you who are willing to throw out the law when the going gets tough. It actually doesn't matter whether the guilty one is Malay or Chinese. The law must be dispense accordingly, otherwise injustice will be done.

    4. When the country is in chaos and racial riots happens because of this 1 prick who is a thief ..I think the end justifies the means.

      On a lighter note I guess his lawyer is going to tell the judge..It looks like him,sounds like him but it's not him...this defense really works...lollllll

    5. If you think the end justifies the means, then wait till one day they come knocking on your door early in the morning and drag you away for something which justify some other ends.

    6. Annie,

      The Star newspaper reported that the thief had stolen a lenovo handphone worth about RM800.

      What is this had to do with the Oppo Salesman?

      Jack Nicholson once said in a film A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth!"

      Well, the truth sometimes is difficult to accept and sometime people would rather be in the alternate reality.

    7. Okay, if that's how you want it, let's close down the courts and if we want to judge someone, just read The Star. If the Star says someone is guilty of being a thief, then we just throw him in jail. Happy?

  18. No Annie,

    The thief should sue the phone salesman, bring him to court.

    That is the civilized way, not by beating up people and bystanders.

    But according to the police, there was no report made against the salesman and from what I had gathered there was no receipt of purchase.

    So how are authority going to bring the salesman to court?

    Of course the salesman is not going to issue a receipt for stealing a phone,

    Bottom line is, violence should not be tolerated, especially when there is not even a shred of evidence. (Evidence for this particular case, not some other
    cases. Despite what people had said, we all know that Plaza Low Yatt is crowded full with people who are generally satisfied shopping for IT stuff).

  19. Ada perkara yang tak kena ni.

    Budak curi telefon bawak kutu belasah salesman telefon. Kalau aku dah mencuri, mampos aku tak datang balik kedai aku dah curi. Sifat dan ragam pencuri.

    Kenapa la kpn ni tak pakai ayat protokol .."kita sedang siasat" Kita tak payah kelahi pendapat kat blog Annie ni. Kita boleh gelak macam kita tegelak gelak tengok telecast press conference MH370. Pendapat.

    Ketua kena tegas. Baru boleh jadi ketua. Semua ketua kena macam tu.
    baru pengikut bertambah setia. Ini kita banyak diberitakan perkara yang kita sangsi beyond doubt. Maknanya apa yang kita dapat hebahan ada ketua kurang tegas. 4 tan Sri. Jadi bila dah dihebah ni ramai orang percaya dan ramai orang tak percaya. Pendapat lagi. Dia orang ni siasat lambat dan macam bagi jawapan orang kurang tegas dan adakala teragak agak seperti kurang bersedia.

    This may coincidently be an induced trend.
    Why would this thief come back to the shop ?
    Explain this.

    Laws must prevail.