Anonymous24 September 2015 at 21:45
Excuse me for this sombre talk when Annie deserves light ones during the Hari Raya break, but one suggestion that whoever has contacts with the Saudi Embassy or top guns in the Saudi government may relay (I have none and too lazy to write in their official website, even if there's one -
the 300+ deaths (figures as at 8.30 pm - 700 at 9.30 news?) due to a stampede among the Hajj pilgrims (this year 3 million) while stoning the devil in Meena. Several hundred also died in 2006 and 1200+ in 1999 in the same place during the same occasion:
the suggestion:
1. add more cctv cameras in Meena, assign officers specifically to look at specific tv screens showing the Meena stoning-the-devil ceremony (3 million during 24 hours, like 100,000 per hour - correctness of this to be verified)
2. those officers to closely observe any sign of panic at any point during the walk to the actual stone throwing spot, such signs to be based on tv footage of past death-causing stampedes -
3. any sign at all, sound the alarm or siren that all pilgrims must have been told before hand to stop walking completely, stand on the same spot, don't move, until another siren indicates they may resume walking
Lives must be saved. Yes, many pilgrims want to die in the Holy Land but surely not by being trampled upon during stampedes. The stone-throwing incidents there have caused worse fatalities than Al Qaeda attacks, against which the Saudi authorities have readied many thousands security personnel trained in countering and putting down such attacks.
Credit to the Saudi authorities for significant and all--the-time improvements to facilities for the pilgrims. But deaths from stampedes must be avoided and all preventive measures must be put in place.
Al Fatihah to those who perished to day.
the 300+ deaths (figures as at 8.30 pm - 700 at 9.30 news?) due to a stampede among the Hajj pilgrims (this year 3 million) while stoning the devil in Meena. Several hundred also died in 2006 and 1200+ in 1999 in the same place during the same occasion:
the suggestion:
1. add more cctv cameras in Meena, assign officers specifically to look at specific tv screens showing the Meena stoning-the-devil ceremony (3 million during 24 hours, like 100,000 per hour - correctness of this to be verified)
2. those officers to closely observe any sign of panic at any point during the walk to the actual stone throwing spot, such signs to be based on tv footage of past death-causing stampedes -
3. any sign at all, sound the alarm or siren that all pilgrims must have been told before hand to stop walking completely, stand on the same spot, don't move, until another siren indicates they may resume walking
Lives must be saved. Yes, many pilgrims want to die in the Holy Land but surely not by being trampled upon during stampedes. The stone-throwing incidents there have caused worse fatalities than Al Qaeda attacks, against which the Saudi authorities have readied many thousands security personnel trained in countering and putting down such attacks.
Credit to the Saudi authorities for significant and all--the-time improvements to facilities for the pilgrims. But deaths from stampedes must be avoided and all preventive measures must be put in place.
Al Fatihah to those who perished to day.
Thanks Anon.
I hope the suggestions are heard and acted upon by the relevant authorities.
Meanwhile, it was reported that,
The Economist magazine had run a story a couple of days ago that this Hajj is the safest in years following that crane tragedy. I think they're counting their proverbial eggs way too soon.
ReplyDelete"The pilgrimage takes place during the known months. …..... So have fear of Me, people of intelligence!" - Quran(2:197)
DeleteNow as we saw from (2:197), Hajj can be done at any point in the 4 sacred months, and so the specified and numbered days (2:196, 203) on which we perform our hajj must fall into these 4 months, which are Zul Hijja, Muharram, Safar and Rabi’ awal.
It should be obvious that being allowed to do Hajj at any time within a 4 month period solves many of the problems of current overcrowding and difficulty in even being able to get there (limited visas etc…) by spreading the practice over a much longer period, thus removing much of the stress and barriers to the performance of Hajj currently faced by Muslims the world over. This is a much more just system, all praise be to Allah.
### So muslim nations shld press Saudi to "read n understand n implement" Quran 2:197####
Pure n simple
Very good point 1044.
DeleteBut who has authority in determining the period for Hajj as it stands now?
If it's a matter of interpretation of the Qur'an (I confess not to know) and if it's matter between the Sunni and the Shi'ah interpretations, I'll stick to Sunni that my country's religious authorities have decided for us and which have become law.
Ringgit hitting 4.5 to the greenback soon. What is the our Gomen doing?
ReplyDeleteThy will wait until it hit 5.10..he he he
DeleteLet it be. Let it go.
DeleteIndeed.. Al-Fatihah for the deceased. Accordingly, a round of sympathies / condolences to the families affected, be they M'sians or Non-M'sians.. :-(
ReplyDeleteI still bear hope to pass-on the Husnul Khotimah manner. And what better place than on Holy land itself..
-Ghaz-
Good of you for putting that out as a new post, Annie. Agree with Ghaz on the round of sympathies and condolences on the families of the victims.
ReplyDeleteA huge number died - 717 of them, imagine that. Fortunately none from Malaysia, said one Malaysian Deputy Minister, though a few Malaysian pilgrims died on the crane accident a week or so ago.
The IGP was there. Good no Malaysian died.
DeleteAccidents there will always be. God is the power above all and God determines all. Though human beings have to try their best to prevent accidents, then pray for God's help.
ReplyDeleteGod works in mysterious ways. sometimes provides bright sunshine after the dark clouds. Let's pray that those affected get that.
Big pity. Especially when thinking those could be poor people who saved a whole lifetime to go for Haji.
ReplyDeleteThey say the groups go by countries. According to set time. One time, Malaysian pilgrims turn was at 5 pm.
Sadder when thinking those could happen at lunchtime and those people didn't have lunch yet, hungry, weak, easy to panic and stampede. Pity them.
There are those people who traditionally go to pilgrimage by camel and by foot. Tradition since Prophet Muhammad's time. From neighbouring countries. Even from across the Nile in Africa.
ReplyDeleteEven from neighbouring country, Saudi Arabia a big country, a long journey, not well to do pilgrims. If mostly them who died, I give them an additional Fatihah.
In memory of the departed ....
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/kmq4xb0_cbU
Kita memanjatkan doa dan memohon ke-hadirat Allah Al-Aziz Ar-Rahim supaya Ia menjadikan kita orang dari golongan terpilih: yang telah dipimpinNya ke jalan yang hakiki; yang di beriNya petunjuk dan ilham untuk mengingatiNya - bukan untuk melupakanNya; yang dipeliharakanNya dari kejahatan nafsu sehingga yang melekat di hati hanya hidayah Allah; dan yang mengikhlaskan hati kita hingga mengabdikan diri kita ke hadiratNya Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.
DeleteAmeeen.
DeleteThe Saudi government spending billions of dollars boosting the infrastrutures but this kind of tragedy is still happening. I think they have to put a limit for those who want to perform the pilgrimage each year. A lot of lives perished. How sad.
ReplyDeleteThey have placed limits but every year so many countries asking for higher quotas. Malaysia included.
DeleteMuslims increased in number especially in countries with conservative Muslim populations who do not believe or practice birth control. Nigeria has 70 million population, a large number are Muslims. Bengadesh is almost wholly Muslim, many with considerable family sizes.
They have to enlarge pilgrim numbers annually but place maximum security measures.
Their effort on safety is still not enough.
DeleteDear Anon 10:28,
DeleteVis-a-vis Infras, it is incumbent upon the Saudi Govt. to build/construct/improve amenities or facilities as efficiently possible, for the comfort of the ever-expanding number of Pilgrims.
The analogy is really as simple as that of highways. Were Kaa'bah in Malaysia, the Govt.-of-the-day too will have to shoulder such burden.
The stampede as I understand it however, is more on procedure/process.
Then as well, in tandem with 6th. Rukun Iman; inspite of the most stringent of Safety measures, accidents do still happen. Albeit very rare, it does occur even in Offshore.
Agree that it is sad, though as Muslims we/they have to redha.
-Ghaz-
ReplyDeleteInna li'Lahi wainna ilaihi rojiuun !
( al-Quran, 2: 156 )
The best infra and CCTVs galore will not ensure safety and efficiency. HMs Saudi Government must outsource Hajj operations and procedures to the more competent, one example being the Makkah Metro MRT opened the last few days being operated mainly by Malaysians.
Haji M Zin
Alor Gajah DPH
They spend most of their time killing Yamanis(houthis), IS and Al-Qaeda to protect their power base. Less on the pilgrims who bring billions to the Saudi.
Deletegood to know, txs.
Deletehope more to malaysians - they got plenty of money.
though not rm2.6 billion - not them, anyway, isn't it.
DeletePrasarana beat rivals fr Turkey & Korea, Sdr ANON 11:33
to al-hamduli'Llah win the consultancy contract of the Makkah Public Transport Programme. Phase 1 covers the construction of two MRT lines totalling 45 km that runs from 30 months from December 2014.
( Ref. Railway Gazette on 28th Nov 2014 )
Haji M Zin
Alor Gajah DPH
disagree with 1118. unless got facts - reliable ones.
ReplyDeleteI think the frenzied state of many during the stoning, the insistence of ensuring the stones hit the pillar and the thinking that one need to lunge forward and take an almighty throw at the pillar ( many have suffered injury to their heads from stones falling short of the pillar) is one of the reason why this part of the hajj becomes dangerous..
ReplyDeleteAnybody seen footage or read how the accident actually happened? Strange, nothing so far in Google news or CNN, BBC, Aljazeera.
Delete
DeleteMost press statements point to negilgence, Sdr
in traffic and crowd management, that HMs Saudi government should consider outsourcing to other Muslim nations, who are can react better.
These are excepts from NY Times on 25th September 2015 :
'.. The Saudi health minister, Khalid al-Falih said in a statement that the stampede may have been caused by “some pilgrims who didn’t follow the guidelines and instructions issued by the responsible authorities.”
.. The head of Iran’s hajj organization, Said Ohadi said two paths near the site of the accident had been closed for “unknown reasons.'
Haji M Zin
Alor Gajah DPH
Just finished a long chat with a Haji who had performed the stoning ritual on 2 separate occasions.
DeleteBased on what he personally saw, he agrees with the Saudi Health Minister's opinion. Pushing and shoving by anxious and rather frenzied devotees just before reaching the spot. Mass psychology followed, once one person falls a few others followed and real panic starts until so many dead, he said.
What the Iranian said is a bit suspect because Iranians have no love lost with the Saudis re the Sunni and Shi'ah schism.